Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id MDjLDQsu5mPO1QUAcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2023 05:44:11 -0600 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Fri, 10 Feb 2023 05:44:11 -0600 Received: from smtp32.cix.co.uk ([77.92.64.19]:53452 helo=smtp2.cix.co.uk) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1pQRp3-001bXD-O7 for craig@sbc-85.com; Fri, 10 Feb 2023 05:44:11 -0600 Received: (qmail 4579 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2023 11:43:57 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO LM010) (86.129.211.191) by smtp2.cix.co.uk with SMTP; 10 Feb 2023 11:43:57 +0000 Message-ID: <6A7E7BDD9FCB49FA98A8C58A597CA0AE@LM010> From: "Sid Jones" To: "Jon Hales" Cc: "Mattis Lind" , "SBC-85" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: intellec 8 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2023 11:43:52 -0000 Organization: Logic/Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01D93D44.F2943550" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.0 X-Spam-Score: 10 X-Spam-Bar: + X-Spam-Flag: NO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01D93D44.F2943550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What an excellent idea! I=E2=80=99d be up for that! In other news, I=E2=80=99m rewiring my intellec 4 mod 40 because the = original mains connections are just lethal... I=E2=80=99m adding a blanking plate across the mains outlet for an IEC = connector. Might be able to get more made if required? Also I=E2=80=99ve got some Molex connectors for the wiring harness and = I=E2=80=99m looking at a crimp tool for the inserts. The pukka device is =C2=A3400, but cheaper equivalants are available. Details will be provided, but I might have the facility to terminate = leads for use with the original wiring connectors. Regards Sid From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 9:26 PM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: Mattis Lind ; SBC-85=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Mattis=20 Congratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting one, I = suggest you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in UK. I think I have the socket already, but need to check the pin spacing. So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please check it would = allow for two boards. Regards=20 Jon On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid Jones, = wrote: I could be very tempted... What might the shipping cost be, please? I=E2=80=99m in the UK. I will take a look at the lines and check the differences. (And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of pin = persuasion to connect to the board?) Regards Sid From: Mattis Lind=20 Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM To: SBC-85=20 Cc: Sid Jones ; Jon Hales=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hello!=20 I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent som time = soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is hard to = tell for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with the front = panel. It behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. Not ENIG. = 2um ENIG was quite a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t intending = to use it that much so I stayed at HASL.=20 I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one. They are 10 euros = plus shipping to cover my actual costs.=20 /Mattis torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 : The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 are different, but = to my knowledge the cards are the same dimensions. a straight through = extension card should be fine, but if the 8/80 doubled up (front/back) = voltage rails like the +/- 12V are shorted together on the front/back, = that would cause problems in the 4/40 where those lines are signals While I made the power traces wider, I did not short and solder side = / component side traces together except possibly the ground (which I = think is the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane.=20 I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the weekend (depending = on the weather).=20 Regards Craig On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones = wrote: =EF=BB=BF=20 Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be... I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about =C2=A315,000 then. = (It=E2=80=99s still in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn its value = back..) (But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 in 1982!) I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 and 4 = bit... And extender would not need to know the actual signals. Just the = connector and depth? Regards Sid From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM To: Mattis Lind=20 Cc: Sid Jones ; craig@sbc-85.com=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig.=20 I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec 8/80. = The story is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to imagine it = would happen these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, Herb Johnson = mentioned that your Monitor code is version 4.0 and that he and Bill = Beech are working on disassembly. The discussion is under 'Pre-Altair' = and was started by Roland Huisman some years ago. On the topic of what value we have attached to money at different = times, my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In that year, = the same amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a small house for a = family) could have bought a basic-specification MDS Series-II. This = comes from a copy of Intel's 1978 price lists. A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone dealing = with Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the Intellec = backplane slots have specific functions, so the boards cannot be moved = around to allow signals to be probed. I'm aware that S-100 slots have = different assignments for the 2 x 50 contacts, but wouldn't an S-100 = extender have some potential? I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board that was = (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or disable = power to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED displays to = provide a visual indication of activity - although I should emphasise = that I have just the bare board with no documentation and no components = with which to populate it. Given the capacity of today's test equipment = perhaps it's not of any practical benefit, but I found it interesting to = think about the potential of an 'advanced' bus extender. As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two Intellec = 8/80s, access to some documentation including schematic drawings and = dumps of EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in two 2716s). = Would there be any value in my placing these items on my Google Drive = for a week or two? What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have tried to = locate the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no success.=20 Enough for now. All the best Jon On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 09:26, Mattis Lind = wrote: Hello everyone!=20 A short introduction: My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an interest in = old computers. My collection of various vintage computers can be seen on = www.datormuseum.se, unfortunately not updated for quite some time. Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a flea-market = in Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been sitting on the = shelf since then and just recently I thought I should do something about = it. My plan is to connect it to a teletype and perhaps run BASIC or = MicroChess just for fun.=20 The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. Then I = started to test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set to trip at = almost 9V so I adjusted it down to a more reasonable level. Then I also = found that the 5V supply itself didn't regulate at all. After some head = scratching I discovered that the driver transistor was leaky. With a new = power transistor in place it regulated fine. I put everything together = and tried the machine with boards installed.=20 The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain conditions I = could enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't work as was = indicated in the manual. At one point it was possible to single step a = one instruction program that jumped back to itself. I checked the front = panel itself. It looked like at least all switches and LEDs were working = but it looked like there was some logic on the front panel controller in = the bus that wasn't doing what it was supposed to. To get access to do = measurements on the board I needed an extender board.=20 My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have done quite = many layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that long. But = one obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the size of boards and = connectors, it takes some time to get this right and it is easy to make = mistakes. I did some googling on Intellec and found the interesting pages = by Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout for the = Intellec sized PCBs. So this is the reason for ending up here! BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also had = problems with some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 programmer so I = cannot compare it with others. I thought the EPROM was marginal. /Mattis Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 kl 14:15 skrev Sid Jones = : Thanks for the email, Jon. My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground up = refurbishment, due to having dropped off a shelf a decade or two ago... I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader simulator and I = really fancy a crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer. (Stealing from the best, of course...) What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM based = assembler that came with the box. Should have kept a copy of the tape = when I left college! Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 box, no = terminal, no floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and a white = Series II that I was going to use for spares. With drives. And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 from = various clients. And the odd intel manual or three.. Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny Cambridge = sometime soon? And how do I join the Google group, please? These new-fangled = =E2=80=98social media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past me... Regards Sid PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! Rockwell Echo = cancelling chip with Star Trek =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in the = layers! Geek cred squared! From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: craig@sbc-85.com ; Mattis Lind=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig=20 Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate position = to have a 4/40. I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to Craig, to = explain (briefly) where I'm coming from.=20 About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and found an = eBay seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board containing a 386 and = 387 for about the amount I had expected to pay for the CPU. Fast forward = to about 2020, when I bought a 386 board from Northwest Technical, which = came with a set of original ROMs and a copy of the manual. I was able = to get the original board working by copying the ROMs. Along the way I = had collected several Intel Model 310 86/286 systems running Xenix and = iRMX-86. I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in buying a = Intellec 8/80 for about the amount I paid for the 386 board. Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the Centre = for Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive of magnetic = media, which no-one else seemed interested in preserving; I live near = Cambridge). The museum already had an Intellec 8/80. I collected another = 8/80 from a donor who had stored a quantity of Intel development systems = after they were scrapped by his employer. This gave me an opportunity to = partially dismantle it (for cleaning and inspection) and photograph the = boards and PSUs before it went to the museum. More recently, I = photographed the boards and chassis of the museum's 8/80 to copy the = images to Craig. The PROM board had been adapted to 2716s. The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1 = reproduction. A friend of the museum populated the board with = period-correct chips as well as the PSU and adding a tape interface. I = donated a Hitachi mono monitor to provide a display. This is a permanent = exhibit, alongside an Altair 8800, an 8800b and an Imsai 8080. Unlike = the Intellec 8/80s, although they have (at least) comparable historical = significance, which remain in storage. This is the background to propose = an Intellec 8/80 reproduction system for the museum. Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed to = acquire the basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data specialist', my = understanding of electronics is basic. However, I have had a good deal = of success at building up useful systems from bare boards. I would be = ready to organise orders from JLCPCB, with which I have an account. Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an 'email = group' called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This developed from the = efforts of Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson (and others) to = support efforts to get MDS systems working. There are now some members = of the group in UK. I have contributed disk images, based partly on the = museum's collection, and scans of various Intel documents. Mark Ogden = (ogdenpm on Github) has done much to organise the collection of software = and manuals. Although the emphasis has been mainly on Series II MDS = systems, it would appear a good approach to suggest you both join this = group. As well as providing support to each other, the group has been = successful at bringing together information on Bill Beech's Google = Drive. Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin Eberhard = programmer for 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if you want an = easy way to get code into these chips. (I know, it would be better to do = this via an Intellec or a iUP-103 Universal Programmer with the = appropriate interface - I have an iUP-103, but it's only equipped for = 2716s). Best regards Jon On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 10:34, Sid Jones = wrote: Thanks for the update! FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec 4/40 that I = used in college between 1974-1977. And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a RS232-20 = mA current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM programmer. Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into the ROM = monitor socket, to get over the bit rot in the original 1702A devices = until I can programme some more!. BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old = stock=E2=80=99 EPROMs in Sweden. A nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin = has a stash of 500+ !!! This will be after the case has been cleaned, de-bent and = repainted. Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s involving a weak shelf = and gravity... I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 devices from = the uni project and after being inspired by Craig=E2=80=99s work, = I=E2=80=99m giving some thought to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board for = the 4040. Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic rather than = the electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket everything and make = a new drop-in board for my intel box. Madness, or what? Regards Sid From: craig@sbc-85.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 PM To: 'Jon Hales' ; 'Mattis Lind' ; 'Sid Jones'=20 Subject: intellec 8 Hi Jon, Mattis, & Sid I am not sure you are all aware of each other yet=E2=80=A6 = but I think everyone has some level of interest in making one or more of = the reproduction boards for the intellect and, since you are somewhat = close together, it may make sense to order boards directly from the = board house and redistribute amongst yourselves. Sid and Jon are in the = UK, Mattis is in Sweden=E2=80=94two of my favorite countries to visit by = the way. As for the boards, I have been distracted lately but hope to = get back to get them fully tested. the PROM, RAM, Motherboard, and 8008 = CPU all look OK, I need to build and test the 8080 CPU and a simple card = extender board. I haven=E2=80=99t even started a front panel board or = either of the I/O boards and have no intention yet to make the eprom = programming board. I expect the remaining boards may continue to drag = out, or maybe someone else will decide to make them before me. If Sid and Mattis have not joined the intel development = google group, that remains to be the most centralized and deepest well = of information. regards to all, craig ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01D93D44.F2943550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What an excellent idea!
 
I=E2=80=99d be up for that!
 
In other news, I=E2=80=99m rewiring my intellec 4 mod 40 because = the original mains=20 connections are just lethal...
 
I=E2=80=99m adding a blanking plate across the mains outlet for an = IEC=20 connector.
 
Might be able to get more made if required?
 
Also I=E2=80=99ve got some Molex connectors for the wiring harness = and I=E2=80=99m looking=20 at a crimp tool for the inserts.
 
The pukka device is =C2=A3400, but cheaper equivalants are = available.
 
Details will be provided, but I might have the facility to = terminate leads=20 for use with the original wiring connectors.
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
 
From: Jon Hales
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Mattis=20
 
Congratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting one, I = suggest=20 you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in UK.
 
I think I have the socket already, but need to check the pin = spacing.
 
So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please check it = would=20 allow for two boards.
 
Regards
 
Jon
 
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid Jones, = <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.= uk>=20 wrote:
I could be very tempted...
 
What might the shipping cost be, please?
 
I=E2=80=99m in the UK.
 
I will take a look at the lines and check the differences.
 
(And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of pin = persuasion=20 to connect to the board?)
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM
To: SBC-85
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hello!=20
 
I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent som = time=20 soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is hard = to tell=20 for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with the front = panel. It=20 behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. Not ENIG. 2um ENIG = was=20 quite a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t intending to use it = that much so I=20 stayed at HASL.
 
I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one.  They are = 10 euros=20 plus shipping to cover my actual costs.
 
/Mattis


torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com>:
The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 are = different,=20 but to my knowledge the cards are the same dimensions.  a = straight=20 through extension card should be fine, but if the 8/80 doubled up=20 (front/back) voltage rails like the +/- 12V are shorted together on = the=20 front/back, that would cause problems in the 4/40 where those lines = are=20 signals
 
While I made the power traces wider, I did not short = and solder=20 side / component side traces together except possibly the ground = (which I=20 think is the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane.
 
I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the = weekend=20 (depending on the weather).
 
Regards
 
Craig

On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones = <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>=20 wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be...
 
I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about =C2=A315,000 = then. (It=E2=80=99s=20 still in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn its value = back..)
 
(But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 in=20 1982!)
 
I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 and 4 = bit...=20 And extender would not need to know the actual signals. Just the = connector=20 and depth?
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig.=20
 
I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec = 8/80. The=20 story is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to imagine = it would=20 happen these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, Herb Johnson=20 mentioned that your Monitor code is version 4.0 and that he and = Bill Beech=20 are working on disassembly. The discussion is under 'Pre-Altair' = and was=20 started by Roland Huisman some years ago.
 
On the topic of what value we have attached to money at = different=20 times, my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In that = year,=20 the same amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a small house = for a=20 family) could have bought a basic-specification MDS Series-II. = This comes=20 from a copy of Intel's 1978 price lists.
 
A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone = dealing with=20 Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the Intellec = backplane slots have specific functions, so the boards cannot be = moved=20 around to allow signals to be probed. I'm aware that S-100 slots = have=20 different assignments for the 2 x 50 contacts, but wouldn't an = S-100=20 extender have some potential?
 
I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board that = was=20 (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or = disable=20 power to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED displays = to=20 provide a visual indication of activity - although I should = emphasise that=20 I have just the bare board with no documentation and no components = with=20 which to populate it. Given the capacity of today's test equipment = perhaps=20 it's not of any practical benefit, but I found it interesting to = think=20 about the potential of an 'advanced' bus extender.
 
As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two = Intellec 8/80s,=20 access to some documentation including schematic drawings and = dumps of=20 EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in two 2716s). = Would=20 there be any value in my placing these items on my Google Drive = for a week=20 or two?
 
What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have tried = to=20 locate the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no success. =
 
Enough for now.
 
All the best
 
Jon
 
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 09:26, = Mattis Lind=20 <mattislind@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone!=20
 
A short introduction:
 
My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an = interest in=20 old computers. My collection of various vintage computers can be = seen on=20 www.datormuseum.se, unfortunately not = updated for=20 quite some time.
Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a = flea-market in=20 Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been sitting on = the shelf=20 since then and just recently I thought I should do something = about it.=20 My plan is to connect it to a teletype and perhaps run BASIC or=20 MicroChess just for fun.
 
The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. Then I = started=20 to test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set to trip at = almost 9V=20 so I adjusted it down to a more reasonable level. Then I also = found that=20 the 5V supply itself didn't regulate at all. After some head = scratching=20 I discovered that the driver transistor was leaky. With a new = power=20 transistor in place it regulated fine. I put everything together = and=20 tried the machine with boards installed.
 
The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain = conditions I=20 could enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't work = as was=20 indicated in the manual. At one point it was possible to single = step a=20 one instruction program that jumped back to itself. I checked = the=20 front  panel itself. It looked like at least all switches = and LEDs=20 were working but it looked like there was some logic on the = front panel=20 controller in the bus that wasn't doing what it was supposed to. = To get=20 access to do measurements on the  board I needed an = extender board.=20
 
My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have done = quite many=20 layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that long. But = one=20 obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the size of boards = and=20 connectors, it takes some time to get this right and it is easy = to make=20 mistakes.
 
I did some googling on Intellec and found the interesting = pages by=20 Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout for the = Intellec sized PCBs.
 
So this is the reason for ending up here!
 
BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also had = problems=20 with some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 programmer so I = cannot=20 compare it with others. I thought the EPROM was marginal.
 
 
/Mattis
 
 
Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 kl = 14:15 skrev Sid=20 Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>:
Thanks for the email, Jon.
 
My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground up=20 refurbishment, due to having dropped off a shelf a decade or = two=20 ago...
 
I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader simulator = and I really=20 fancy a crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer.
 
(Stealing from the best, of course...)
 
What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM = based assembler=20 that came with the box. Should have kept a copy of the tape = when I=20 left college!
 
Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 = box, no terminal,=20 no floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and a white = Series II=20 that I was going to use for spares. With drives.
 
And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 from = various clients. And the=20 odd intel manual or three..
 
Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny = Cambridge sometime=20 soon?
 
And how do I join the Google group, please? These = new-fangled=20 =E2=80=98social media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past = me...
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! Rockwell = Echo=20 cancelling chip with Star Trek =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in = the layers! Geek cred=20 squared!
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig=20
 
Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate = position to=20 have a 4/40.
 
I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to = Craig, to=20 explain (briefly) where I'm coming from.
 
About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and found = an eBay=20 seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board containing a 386 = and 387=20 for about the amount I had expected to pay for the CPU. Fast = forward=20 to about 2020, when I bought a 386 board from Northwest = Technical,=20 which came with a set of original  ROMs and a copy of the = manual.=20 I was able to get the original board working by copying the = ROMs.=20 Along the way I had collected several Intel Model 310 86/286 = systems=20 running Xenix and iRMX-86.
 
I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in buying a = Intellec 8/80 for about the amount I paid for the 386 = board.
 
Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the = Centre for=20 Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive of = magnetic=20 media, which no-one else seemed interested in preserving; I = live near=20 Cambridge). The museum already had an Intellec 8/80. I = collected=20 another 8/80 from a donor who had stored a quantity of Intel=20 development systems after they were scrapped by his employer. = This=20 gave me an opportunity to partially dismantle it (for cleaning = and=20 inspection) and photograph the boards and PSUs before it went = to the=20 museum. More recently, I photographed the boards and chassis = of the=20 museum's 8/80 to copy the images to Craig. The PROM board had = been=20 adapted to 2716s.
 
The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1=20 reproduction. A friend of the museum populated the board with=20 period-correct chips as well as the PSU and adding a tape = interface. I=20 donated a Hitachi mono monitor to provide a display. This is a = permanent exhibit, alongside an Altair 8800, an 8800b and an = Imsai=20 8080. Unlike the Intellec 8/80s, although they have (at least) = comparable historical significance, which remain in storage. = This is=20 the background to propose an Intellec 8/80 reproduction system = for the=20 museum.
 
Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed to = acquire=20 the basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data specialist', = my=20 understanding of electronics is basic. However, I have had a = good deal=20 of success at building up useful systems from bare boards. I = would be=20 ready to organise orders from JLCPCB, with which I have an=20 account.
 
Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an = 'email=20 group' called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This developed = from the=20 efforts of Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson (and = others) to=20 support efforts to get MDS systems working. There are now some = members=20 of the group in UK. I have contributed disk images, based = partly on=20 the museum's collection, and scans of various Intel documents. = Mark=20 Ogden (ogdenpm on Github) has done much to organise the = collection of=20 software and manuals. Although the emphasis has been mainly on = Series=20 II MDS systems, it would appear a good approach to suggest you = both=20 join this group. As well as providing support to each other, = the group=20 has been successful at bringing together information on Bill = Beech's=20 Google Drive.
 
Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin Eberhard=20 programmer for 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if you = want an=20 easy way to get code into these chips. (I know, it would be = better to=20 do this via an Intellec or a iUP-103 Universal Programmer with = the=20 appropriate interface - I have an iUP-103, but it's only = equipped for=20 2716s).
 
Best regards
 
Jon
 
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at = 10:34, Sid Jones=20 <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk> = wrote:
Thanks for the update!
 
FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec 4/40 = that I used in=20 college between 1974-1977.
 
And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a = RS232-20 mA=20 current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM programmer.
 
Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into the = ROM=20 monitor socket, to get over the bit rot in the original = 1702A=20 devices until I can programme some more!.
 
BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old = stock=E2=80=99 EPROMs in=20 Sweden. A nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin has a stash of = 500+=20 !!!
 
This will be after the case has been cleaned, de-bent = and=20 repainted. Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s involving a = weak shelf and=20 gravity...
 
I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 devices = from the=20 uni project and after being inspired by Craig=E2=80=99s = work, I=E2=80=99m giving=20 some thought to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board for the = 4040.
 
Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic rather = than the=20 electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket everything = and make=20 a new drop-in board for my intel box.
 
Madness, or what?
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 PM
To: 'Jon=20 Hales' ; 'Mattis Lind' ; 'Sid Jones'
Subject: intellec 8
 

Hi Jon, Mattis, & = Sid

 

I am not sure you are all aware of each = other=20 yet=E2=80=A6 but I think everyone has some level of interest = in making one=20 or more of the reproduction boards for the intellect and, = since you=20 are somewhat close together, it may make sense to order = boards=20 directly from the board house and redistribute amongst=20 yourselves.  Sid and Jon are in the UK, Mattis is in = Sweden=E2=80=94two=20 of my favorite countries to visit by the = way.

 

As for the boards, I have been = distracted lately=20 but hope to get back to get them fully tested.  the = PROM, RAM,=20 Motherboard, and 8008 CPU all look OK, I need to build and = test the=20 8080 CPU and a simple card extender board.  I = haven=E2=80=99t even=20 started a front panel board or either of the I/O boards and = have no=20 intention yet to make the eprom programming board.  I = expect=20 the remaining boards may continue to drag out, or maybe = someone else=20 will decide to make them before me.

 

If Sid and Mattis have not joined the = intel=20 development google group, that remains to be the most = centralized=20 and deepest well of information.

 

regards to all,

 

craig

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