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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8a53634481301f7e60e15647269138ce; Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:34:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Glen Hollander Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_47A393BB-4153-4B9F-A98A-75EEF14BA300" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) Subject: Re: errata Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0700 References: <6C4D421C-B52D-4C80-95B4-89C86EA613E6@yahoo.com> <781F31A0-3B09-4236-B7F8-BB82DD6E08F6@sbc-85.com> To: SBC-85 In-Reply-To: <781F31A0-3B09-4236-B7F8-BB82DD6E08F6@sbc-85.com> Message-Id: <62323256-A42A-45ED-8CDF-B3D4C464B565@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) Content-Length: 85609 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO --Apple-Mail=_47A393BB-4153-4B9F-A98A-75EEF14BA300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I don=E2=80=99t have an eprom programmer / eraser. It seemed easier to = use eproms.=20 > On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:31 AM, SBC-85 wrote: >=20 > It would be worthwhile to look over the pinout and schematic to check = for contention. Pin 1 for example would have contention on the =E2=80=982= 56 so that pin needs to be lifted so it does not insert into the socket = on the board. The =E2=80=9864s should be ok, I don=E2=80=99t think pin 1 = is internally connected.=20 >=20 > Why are you using EEPROMS rather than EPROMS? >=20 > Regards >=20 > Craig >=20 >> On Nov 28, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Glen Hollander = wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFI may wait on the LEDs for the address and data bus since = the displays are available.=20 >>=20 >> I checked the eprom and it looks like the thing got damaged, the = programmer is no longer happy with it. Time to order a replacement. All = part of the learning curve or should I say cliff? >>=20 >>> On Nov 27, 2022, at 3:20 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>=20 >>> the last board I built has the same colors as the cover photo in the = bus monitor user=E2=80=99s manual. I think I would do the colors the = same but haven=E2=80=99t thought about it lately. with the LEDs on, I = find them too bright to read the silkscreen, so I have toned them down = with larger resistors in most places and I think I will go even larger = next time. . but I like being able to see the mode of the single step = at a glance without reading the silkscreen, so I think the second row of = LEDs is the most important. I just made each nibble of the address and = data different to make counting easier=E2=80=A6 but they have physical = space between the nibbles so maybe that isn=E2=80=99t as important. = most of the time I am relying on the hex display. >>> =20 >>> for the status LEDs on the left, I just made them so the same color = did not repeat, each row is just left shifted from the row above. >>> =20 >>> I imagine that the contents of your EEPROM were corrupted and will = need to be reprogrammed. but I look forward to seeing how that plays = out. >>> =20 >>> regards >>> =20 >>> craig >>> =20 >>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 1:57 PM >>> To: craig@sbc-85.com >>> Subject: Re: errata >>> =20 >>> Did you have any specific thoughts in mind on color placement of the = LEDs on the bus monitor board? I just received a package of lights and = was speculating on which colors to place where? >>> =20 >>> I did move jp-6 to pins 2,3 but not able to decide if this has made = any difference. >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Nov 27, 2022, at 2:32 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>> =20 >>>> I wonder why I didn=E2=80=99t make those sockets completely = universal so they could have EEPROMs. I did on the SBC-85 memory = expansion board and also on the STD-85 board I just did. I will revisit = that on this board when I look at making a revision but will add it to = the requested changes in the meantime. >>>> =20 >>>> regards >>>> =20 >>>> craig >>>> =20 >>>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 6:42 AM >>>> To: craig@sbc-85.com >>>> Subject: Re: errata >>>> =20 >>>> You got me smiling, I thought I was the only person who did that = trick. I admit to wondering if you had noticed the referral to eeprom. = Will have to try your suggestion later today. Right now the pooch is = wanting to go out for his morning walk.=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Nov 26, 2022, at 7:55 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>>> =20 >>>>> you have been saying 28c all this time and I have been reading it = 27c. I did not realize until now you were working with EEPROM, I was = thinking pure EPROM. =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> pin 1 on the board is tied to +5, this is an open drain output on = the EEPROM which is not expecting +5V. but with the 2864 it is probably = not connected so that is OK >>>>> =20 >>>>> pin 27 on the board is either +5 in socket U6 or to JP6 on U9. it = is the /WE on the chip, so if it is high things should be OK and chip is = in read mode. but if you have A14 connected to pin 27 in U9, then when = attempting to read from addresses where A14 is zero, it will be trying = to write to the chip so most likely corrupt what is inside. JP6 should = be in 2-3 in that case to keep /WE high. >>>>> =20 >>>>> pin 22 is /OE and 20 is /CE so those should be OK. >>>>> =20 >>>>> try it with JP6 in 2-3 to take pin 27 to +5 and disable the write = enable. it may work then. >>>>> =20 >>>>> regards >>>>> =20 >>>>> craig >>>>> =20 >>>>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 6:37 PM >>>>> To: craig@sbc-85.com >>>>> Subject: Re: errata >>>>> =20 >>>>> Well, surprisingly the 28C64 arrived this afternoon. I copied the = 2764 to the 28C64 and tried it in the first eprom slot with no response. = Will try it in the second slot and see if I can figure out how to access = it.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Nov 26, 2022, at 3:47 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Rather than use one 256, I generally use two 27128 most of the = time. I have my standard routines and utilities starting at 0000H and = then another one up at 0x4000-0x7FFF for the program I happen to be = working on at the time. I use the 6264 RAM for program development = whenever I can until it outgrows that space. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> you can download dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor and user guide here: >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> MON85 Dave Dunfields Diagnostic Monitor =C2=BB Bits Of The Golden = Age = >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 2:02 PM >>>>>> To: craig@sbc-85.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: errata >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Well, I am sure I am most of the problem with a severe lack of = experience with this sort of thing. As to the confidence test, doing = what you suggest does indeed pull up the confidence test. >>>>>> At the moment I do not have any 28C64 eprom but to expect one to = arrive this next week. (anticipating this might be the issue or at least = eliminate a possible introduced error). May have to see about several = 28C64 chips. Could only order one. That particular seller would only = sell one per week to a buyer, strange.=20 >>>>>> Is there someplace to look for details on Dunfields monitor = program related to the commands? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2022, at 1:55 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Hi again >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> I put dunfield=E2=80=99s MON85 and my confidence in a 27256, set = the jumpers and started it up. it seems to be working ok on my v2.0b = board. I did a G 1000 to go to the confidence test and am now dumping = the eprom. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> one test I would recommend is to make a duplicate of your = original eprom you purchased=E2=80=A6 then configure the board for that = size eprom (2764?) and put the original in the middle socket and the = duplicate in the right ZIF socket. then fire up the monitor, do a G = 1000 to get to the confidence test, and do a dump of the expansion = socket. with a 2764 that will be addresses 0x2000 to 0x3FFF. then make = sure that your board is reading the expansion socket properly and that = socket is indeed working. you can=E2=80=99t run the code up there = because the addresses will be wrong. if the two eproms are the same and = you did a G 2000, it will look like it is running, but it will have = jumped back to the base eprom at the first opportunity. so a dump is = the best way to check that it is reading the eprom up there correctly. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> that will at least help diagnose the problem. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> craig >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> From: craig@sbc-85.com = >=20 >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 12:34 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Glen Hollander' > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: errata >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Hi Glen, >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> OK, that makes sense. if it is v2.0 pin 1 is towards the center = of the board so the jumpers should be away from the top edge. =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> If I read your email correctly, dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor = comes up OK when it is in the original eprom, just not when you move it = to the =E2=80=98256 eprom? >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> there will, of course, be differences in the version of the = dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor for each platform since things need to be = ported to the hardware. That includes there being a difference between = his monitor for the version 1.x of the SBC-85 and v2.0x. I looked at = his site, but I couldn=E2=80=99t find dave=E2=80=99s original MON85 file = to see how big it was, but I thought it was much smaller than 32K. I = don=E2=80=99t remember trimming a lot when porting over to the SBC-85 = but maybe I just forgot. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> looking at just dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor list file, it goes up = to 0FF7. looking at the confidence test ORG at 1000H, it goes up to = 1FF3, so I think the eprom you have is both dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor = and my confidence test. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> at dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor prompt, you can just type g 1000 = which will jump up to the confidence test. MON85 and the confidence = test are two independent programs that just happen to be in the same = eprom. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> I will put dunfield=E2=80=99s MON85 in a 256 and fire it up in = the far right socket. I don=E2=80=99t think I have a v2.0 board=E2=80=A6 = at least I can=E2=80=99t lay my hands on it=E2=80=A6 I try to keep a = version of everything, but when the pile gets knee deep or by the 10th = time I have to move the pile out of the way, I become much less attached = to them. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> craig >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 11:26 AM >>>>>>> To: SBC-85 > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: errata >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Good morning Craig, checking the board, it is marked as v2.0. I = checked the pins at the top of the board for jumpers 5 and 6, pin 3 = shows +5v. I had purchased a eprom on Ebay I believe has Dunfields = monitor program in it. Data shows from 0000h thru 1FF3h. Loading that = into the 28C256 and moving jumpers to what I think is the correct = setting and the eprom into U9 and power up the board and don=E2=80=99t = get a response on the serial terminal. Going back to the original eprom = and it shows on the terminal program MON85 v1.4 (c) 1979-2007 = D.Dunfield 2020-used with permission for SBC-85. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Having downloaded Dunfields program in hex from the internet I = can see it fills an entire 28C256 with code so there must be a lot going = on.=20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2022, at 12:10 AM, SBC-85 > wrote: >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Yes, I removed that figure caption . What version of the CPU = board do you have? =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> When JP5 and JP6 have pins 1-2 shorted, they are just = connecting A13 and A14 to the eprom. I looked at the 2.0b layout and = the pin 1 are on the top edge of the board (opposite the fingers). Pin 3 = on both are connected to 5V. The universal socket part of the manual = shows that for the smaller eproms, those pins are either Vcc, /program, = or n.c. So I think that is all correct but I will test it out again. If = you have v2.0a or v2.0b and using a =E2=80=98256 eprom, then those = jumpers should be towards the top edge. If they were on the bottom = two, that would address the ZIF at A13 and A14 as 1, so your eprom would = start at 0x6000 rather than 0x0000 and so the 8085 is just fetching = junk.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> If you are showing the 5v at the edge of the board on JP5 and = jp6, then it must be prior to v2.0a (version 2.0) where pin 3 is near = the edge so with the 256 eprom the jumper would be on the two away from = the edge.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> You can convince yourself that the middle pin (pin 2) is = connected to the address line on the eprom. Pin 3 is 5V and pin 1 is = the address line from the CPU. >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> As for programming, the confidence test is mainly to be used to = confirm operation and diagnostics, but mostly as a programming example. = Dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor is best used for program diagnostics like = setting breakpoints, single stepping, examining and modifying registers = and memory on the fly. It is hard to use dunfields monitor as a = programming example because there is so much packed into a tight space = it is very hard to figure out what is going on. After Dave said I could = port the code over to this platform, it still took me many hours to = figure out what he was doing half of the time. In my confidence test, = I wasn=E2=80=99t trying to force fit nearly as much so I hope it reads = easier. >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> I presume you have downloaded the source and list files, that = is a key starting point. Then get an 8085 assembler running. The one I = use is the one that Herb Johnson has here: = https://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/a85.html = >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Look at the F8 assembler setup video because it is the same = steps for the A85 assembler.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> You can either start programming and downloading on bare metal = (assembling with your code ORG at 0x0000 then programming the eprom), or = you can be running dunfields monitor and then use the monitor to load = your code, run, and diagnose. >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> In the original eprom, I presume it has dunfields monitor = starting at 0x0000 and the confidence test starting at 0x1000. You can = reset the board to the EPROM configuration where it was before when you = had dunfields monitor running. Then pick a place in RAM for your = program and either type opcodes directly into RAM from the terminal or = download a program using dunfields monitor and his =E2=80=9CL=E2=80=9D = command i think it is. But start simple and use the routines already = written and available. Enter the program using notepad and then use A85 = to assemble, or hand assemble something like this starter program=E2=80=A6= . If you want an easier start, You can just do the first two lines and = then halt or loop.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Your assembler will not like an undefined CO and CI subroutines = so we will need to track down their actual addresses tomorrow. Or you = can assemble the confidence test with an ORG of 1000H and look at the = list file to see where they land >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> MVI A, 31H ;first time through load ascii 1 >>>>>>>> CALL CO ;Send out the serial port to the terminal >>>>>>>> LOOP: >>>>>>>> CALL CI ;call CI to get character from the terminal >>>>>>>> CALL CO ;Send out the serial port to the terminal >>>>>>>> JMP LOOP ;loop forever >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> The addresses for CO and CI should be those in the list file = when the confidence test is assembled with ORG at 1000H if that is where = it is in your eprom.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Rather than hardcore them, put these at the beginning, = replacing the 0=E2=80=A6. With the actual addresses >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> CO SET 0=E2=80=A6. >>>>>>>> CI SET 0=E2=80=A6. >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> The assembler will give other errors because the CO and CI = routines most certainly call other routines. You will need to track = those down one by one and put in a set command for each of those so the = assembler knows where they are.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Alternatively, you can just get the confidence test to = assemble, then add your program directly to it. That way the assembler = will already know where these routines are located.=20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Now that I go over all of this, I am thinking that a =E2=80=9CI = have my SBC-85 assembled, now what do I do?=E2=80=9D Video would be = useful overall. >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Craig >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Glen Hollander = > wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> =EF=BB=BFI purchased a copy of Dave Dunfields rom monitor = program for the SBC-85 board and it seems to respond correctly. I tried = copying this data onto a 28C256 eprom, changing the jumpers to what the = notes call for and placing the eprom into the second eprom slot and do = not get a response on the serial port. There is activity on data and = address lines so the cpu is doing something but not sure what. I have = elected to obtain a 28C64 and see if this makes a difference. I thought = to load dun fields rom program into that and see if that makes a = difference. All part of the learning process.=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Looking at the bus monitor board I have version 1.2b. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> As to programming the eprom, I am not sure I understand what = the confidence test does, nor the mon 85 program nor the utilities. = This is my weak point in the system. is there information online to view = related to these before going forward? And taking the existing rom = monitor, I am not quite sure where to go with it. Again part of the = information I am lacking (lack of formal education) in this matter.=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> In the matter of my question regarding the jumpers (5 and 6) = on the cpu board, a previous to this latest revision has a note in small = print under the component layout diagram indicating that pin 1 is along = the edge of the board. The latest version you just sent omits that note = but the notes on the layout show pin i along the edge. A continuity = check reflects the ground or +5v goes to the pin along the edge which is = opposite of the notes.=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Almost have the bus monitor complete, may delay ordering the = last parts until after Christmas. The regular UPS driver can find our = house, the temporary drivers are incapable of finding their ass if = someone kicks them there. Anyway, it is getting late here, I am going to = turn off the lights for the night and come back to things electronic = tomorrow. Have a good evening.=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:49 PM, craig@sbc-85.com = wrote: >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> Sure, let me know what questions you have. I have sent you = two other emails >>>>>>>>>> to this address, one with the updated bus monitor manual and = one with an >>>>>>>>>> updated SBC-85 user's manual. let me know if either doesn't = arrive (due to >>>>>>>>>> attachment size). I have also updated the manuals on the = project website. >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> regard >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> craig >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Glen Hollander >=20 >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 4:07 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: craig@sbc-85.com Subject: errata >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> here is my email, if you are up to it I would like to take an = opportunity to >>>>>>>>>> ask more about more items on yours bc-85 computer and = programming. Would >>>>>>>>>> probably be rather elementary questions go get a better = understanding of >>>>>>>>>> related things, especially programming. >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_47A393BB-4153-4B9F-A98A-75EEF14BA300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = don=E2=80=99t have an eprom programmer / eraser. It seemed easier to use = eproms. 

On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:31 AM, SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com> = wrote:

It would be worthwhile to = look over the pinout and schematic to check for contention.  Pin 1 = for example would have contention on the =E2=80=98256 so that pin needs = to be lifted so it does not insert into the socket on the board. The = =E2=80=9864s should be ok, I don=E2=80=99t think pin 1 is internally = connected. 

Why are you using EEPROMS = rather than EPROMS?

Regards

Craig

On Nov 28, 2022, at 9:52 = AM, Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFI may wait on the LEDs = for the address and data bus since the displays are available. 

I checked the eprom and = it looks like the thing got damaged, the programmer is no longer happy = with it. Time to order a replacement. All part of the learning curve or = should I say cliff?

On Nov = 27, 2022, at 3:20 PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:

the last board I built has the same colors as = the cover photo in the bus monitor user=E2=80=99s manual.  I think = I would do the colors the same but haven=E2=80=99t thought about it = lately.  with the LEDs on, I find them too bright to read the = silkscreen, so I have toned them down with larger resistors in most = places and I think I will go even larger next time.  .  but I = like being able to see the mode of the single step at a glance without = reading the silkscreen, so I think the second row of LEDs is the most = important.  I just made each nibble of the address and data = different to make counting easier=E2=80=A6 but they have physical space = between the nibbles so maybe that isn=E2=80=99t as important.  most = of the time I am relying on the hex display.
 
for the status LEDs on the = left, I just made them so the same color did not repeat, each row is = just left shifted from the row above.
 
I imagine that the contents of your EEPROM were = corrupted and will need to be reprogrammed.  but I look forward to = seeing how that plays out.
 
regards
 
craig
 
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 = 1:57 PM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: Re: errata
 
Did you have any specific = thoughts in mind on color placement of the LEDs on the bus monitor = board? I just received a package of lights and was speculating on which = colors to place where?
 
I did move jp-6 to pins 2,3 but not = able to decide if this has made any difference.
 


On Nov 27, 2022, at = 2:32 PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:
 
I wonder why I didn=E2=80=99t make those sockets = completely universal so they could have EEPROMs.  I did on the = SBC-85 memory expansion board and also on the STD-85 board I just = did.  I will revisit that on this board when I look at making a = revision but will add it to the requested changes in the meantime.
 
regards
 
craig
 
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 = 6:42 AM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: Re: errata
 
You got me smiling, I thought I was the = only person who did that trick. I admit to wondering if you had noticed = the referral to eeprom. Will have to try your suggestion later today. = Right now the pooch is wanting to go out for his morning walk. 



On Nov 26, 2022, at 7:55 PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:
 
you have been saying 28c = all this time and I have been reading it 27c.  I did not realize = until now you were working with EEPROM, I was thinking pure = EPROM.  
 
pin 1 on the board is tied = to +5, this is an open drain output on the EEPROM which is not expecting = +5V.  but with the 2864 it is probably not connected so that is = OK
 
pin 27 on the board is either +5 in socket U6 or = to JP6 on U9.  it is the /WE on the chip, so if it is high things = should be OK and chip is in read mode.  but if you have A14 = connected to pin 27 in U9, then when attempting to read from addresses = where A14 is zero, it will be trying to write to the chip so most likely = corrupt what is inside.  JP6 should be in 2-3 in that case to keep = /WE high.
 
pin 22 is /OE and 20 is /CE so those should be = OK.
 
try it with JP6 in 2-3 to take pin 27 to +5 and = disable the write enable.  it may work then.
 
regards
 
craig
 
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 = 6:37 PM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: Re: errata
 
Well, surprisingly the 28C64 arrived this = afternoon. I copied the 2764 to the 28C64 and tried it in the first = eprom slot with no response. Will try it in the second slot and see if I = can figure out how to access it. 




On Nov 26, 2022, at 3:47 = PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:
 
Rather than use one 256, I = generally use two 27128 most of the time.  I have my standard = routines and utilities starting at 0000H and then another one up at = 0x4000-0x7FFF for the program I happen to be working on at the time. =   I use the 6264 RAM for program development whenever I can = until it outgrows that space.
 
you can download = dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor and user guide here:
 
MON85 Dave Dunfields Diagnostic Monitor =C2=BB Bits Of The = Golden Age
 
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 = 2:02 PM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: Re: errata
 
Well, I am sure I am most = of the problem with a severe lack of experience with this sort of thing. = As to the confidence test, doing what you suggest does indeed pull up = the confidence test.
At the moment I do not have any 28C64 eprom but = to expect one to arrive this next week. (anticipating this might be the = issue or at least eliminate a possible introduced error). May have to = see about several 28C64 chips. Could only order one. That particular = seller would only sell one per week to a buyer, strange. 
Is there = someplace to look for details on Dunfields monitor program related to = the commands?





On Nov = 26, 2022, at 1:55 PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:
 
Hi again
 
I put = dunfield=E2=80=99s MON85 and my confidence in a 27256, set the jumpers = and started it up.  it seems to be working ok on my v2.0b = board.  I did a G 1000 to go to the confidence test and am now = dumping the eprom.
 
one test = I would recommend is to make a duplicate of your original eprom you = purchased=E2=80=A6 then configure the board for that size eprom (2764?) = and put the original in the middle socket and the duplicate in the right = ZIF socket.  then fire up the monitor, do a G 1000 to get to the = confidence test, and do a dump of the expansion socket.  with a = 2764 that will be addresses 0x2000 to 0x3FFF.  then make sure that = your board is reading the expansion socket properly and that socket is = indeed working.  you can=E2=80=99t run the code up there because = the addresses will be wrong.  if the two eproms are the same and = you did a G 2000, it will look like it is running, but it will have = jumped back to the base eprom at the first opportunity.  so a dump = is the best way to check that it is reading the eprom up there = correctly.
 
that will = at least help diagnose the problem.
 
regards
 
craig
 
 
 
From: craig@sbc-85.com <craig@sbc-85.com> 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 = 12:34 PM
To: 'Glen Hollander' <moosepixels@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: errata
 
Hi = Glen,
 
OK, that = makes sense.  if it is v2.0 pin 1 is towards the center of the = board so the jumpers should be away from the top edge.  
 
If I read = your email correctly,  dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor comes up OK when = it is in the original eprom, just not when you move it to the =E2=80=98256= eprom?
 
there = will, of course, be differences in the version of the dunfield=E2=80=99s = monitor for each platform since things need to be ported to the = hardware.  That includes there being a difference between his = monitor for the version 1.x of the SBC-85 and v2.0x.  I looked at = his site, but I couldn=E2=80=99t find dave=E2=80=99s original MON85 file = to see how big it was, but I thought it was much smaller than 32K.  = I don=E2=80=99t remember trimming a lot when porting over to the SBC-85 = but maybe I just forgot.
 
looking = at just dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor list file, it goes up to 0FF7.  = looking at the confidence test ORG at 1000H, it goes up to 1FF3, so I = think the eprom you have is both dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor and my = confidence test.
 
at = dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor prompt, you can just type g 1000 which will = jump up to the confidence test.  MON85 and the confidence test are = two independent programs that just happen to be in the same eprom.
 
I will = put dunfield=E2=80=99s MON85 in a 256 and fire it up in the far right = socket.  I don=E2=80=99t think I have a v2.0 board=E2=80=A6 at = least I can=E2=80=99t lay my hands on it=E2=80=A6 I try to keep a = version of everything, but when the pile gets knee deep or by the 10th time= I have to move the pile out of the way, I become much less attached to = them.
 
regards
 
craig
 
 
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2022 = 11:26 AM
To: SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com>
Subject: Re: errata
 
Good = morning Craig, checking the board, it is marked as v2.0. I checked the = pins at the top of the board for jumpers 5 and 6,  pin 3 shows +5v. = I had purchased a eprom on Ebay I believe has Dunfields monitor program = in it. Data shows from 0000h thru 1FF3h. Loading that into the 28C256 = and moving jumpers to what I think is the correct setting and the eprom = into U9 and power up the board and don=E2=80=99t get a response on the = serial terminal. Going back to the original eprom and it shows on the = terminal program MON85 v1.4  (c) 1979-2007 D.Dunfield =  2020-used with permission for SBC-85.
 
Having downloaded Dunfields program in hex from = the internet I can see it fills an entire 28C256 with code so there must = be a lot going on. 

 

On Nov 26, 2022, at 12:10 AM, SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com> wrote:
 
Yes, I removed that figure = caption .  What version of the CPU board do you have?  
 
When JP5 and JP6 have pins 1-2 shorted, they are = just connecting A13 and A14 to the eprom.  I looked at the 2.0b = layout and the pin 1 are on the top edge of the board (opposite the = fingers). Pin 3 on both are connected to 5V.  The universal socket = part of the manual shows that for the smaller eproms, those pins are = either Vcc, /program, or n.c.  So I think that is all correct but I = will test it out again. If you have v2.0a or v2.0b and using a =E2=80=9825= 6 eprom, then those jumpers should be towards the top edge.   If = they were on the bottom two, that would address the ZIF at A13 and A14 = as 1, so your eprom would start at 0x6000 rather than 0x0000 and so the = 8085 is just fetching junk. 
 
 If you are showing the 5v at the edge of = the board on JP5 and jp6, then it must be prior to v2.0a (version 2.0) = where pin 3 is near the edge so with the 256 eprom the jumper would be = on the two away from the edge. 
 
You can convince yourself that the middle pin = (pin 2) is connected to the address line on the eprom.  Pin 3 is 5V = and pin 1 is the address line from the CPU.
 
As for programming, the confidence test is = mainly to be used to confirm operation and diagnostics, but mostly as a = programming example.  Dunfield=E2=80=99s monitor is best used for = program diagnostics like setting breakpoints, single stepping, examining = and modifying registers and memory on the fly.   It is hard to use = dunfields monitor as a programming example because there is so much = packed into a tight space it is very hard to figure out what is going = on.  After Dave said I could port the code over to this platform, = it still took me many hours to figure out what he was doing half of the = time.   In my confidence test, I wasn=E2=80=99t trying to force fit = nearly as much so I hope it reads easier.
 
I presume you have downloaded the source and = list files, that is a key starting point.  Then get an 8085 = assembler running.  The one I use is the one that Herb Johnson has = here: https://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/a85.html
 
Look at the F8 assembler setup video because it = is the same steps for the A85 assembler. 
 
You can either start programming and downloading = on bare metal (assembling with your code ORG at 0x0000 then programming = the eprom), or you can be running dunfields monitor and then use the = monitor to load your code, run, and diagnose.
 
In the original eprom, I presume it has = dunfields monitor starting at 0x0000 and the confidence test starting at = 0x1000.  You can reset the board to the EPROM configuration where = it was before when you had dunfields monitor running.  Then pick a = place in RAM for your program and either type opcodes directly into RAM =  from the terminal or download a program using dunfields monitor = and his =E2=80=9CL=E2=80=9D command i think it is.  But start = simple and use the routines already written and available. Enter the = program using notepad and then use A85 to assemble, or hand assemble = something like this starter program=E2=80=A6. If you want an easier = start, You can just do the first two lines and then halt or = loop. 
 
Your assembler will not like an undefined CO and = CI subroutines so we will need to track down their actual addresses = tomorrow.    Or you can assemble the confidence test with an = ORG of 1000H and look at the list file to see where they land
 
MVI A, 31H      ;first time = through load ascii 1
CALL CO   ;Send out the serial port to the = terminal
LOOP:
CALL CI   ;call CI to get character from = the terminal
CALL CO   ;Send out the serial = port to the terminal
JMP LOOP     ;loop forever
 
 
The addresses for CO and CI should be those in = the list file when the confidence test is assembled with ORG at 1000H if = that is where it is in your eprom. 
 
Rather than hardcore them, put these at the = beginning, replacing the 0=E2=80=A6. With the actual addresses
 
CO SET 0=E2=80=A6.
CI SET 0=E2=80=A6.
 
The assembler will give other errors because the = CO and CI routines most certainly call other routines.   You will = need to track those down one by one and put in a set command for each of = those so the assembler knows where they are. 
 
Alternatively, you can just get the confidence = test to assemble, then add your program directly to it. That way the = assembler will already know where these routines are located. 
 
Now that I go over all of this, I am thinking = that a =E2=80=9CI have my SBC-85 assembled, now what do I do?=E2=80=9D = Video would be useful overall.
 
Regards
 
Craig

 

On Nov 25, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> = wrote:

=EF=BB=BF= I purchased a copy of Dave Dunfields rom monitor program for the SBC-85 = board and it seems to respond correctly. I tried copying this data onto = a 28C256 eprom, changing the jumpers to what the notes call for and = placing the eprom into the second eprom slot and do not get a response = on the serial port. There is activity on data and address lines so the = cpu is doing something but not sure what. I have elected to obtain a = 28C64 and see if this makes a difference.  I thought to load dun = fields rom program into that and see if that makes a difference. All = part of the learning process. 

Looking at the bus monitor board I have version 1.2b.

As to programming the eprom, I am not sure I = understand what the confidence test does, nor the mon 85 program nor =  the utilities. This is my weak point in the system. is there = information online to view related to these before going forward? And = taking the existing rom monitor, I am not quite sure where to go with = it. Again part of the information I am lacking (lack of formal = education) in this matter. 

In the matter of my question regarding the jumpers (5 and 6) = on the cpu board, a previous to this latest revision has a note in small = print under the component layout diagram indicating that pin 1 is along = the edge of the board. The latest version you just sent omits that note = but the notes on the layout show pin i along the edge. A continuity = check reflects the ground or +5v goes to the pin along the edge which is = opposite of the notes. 

Almost have the bus monitor complete, may delay ordering the = last parts until after Christmas. The regular UPS driver can find our = house, the temporary drivers are incapable of finding their ass if = someone kicks them there. Anyway, it is getting late here, I am going to = turn off the lights for the night and come back to things electronic = tomorrow. Have a good evening. 





On Nov = 25, 2022, at 5:49 PM, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:
 
Sure, let me know what questions you = have.  I have sent you two other emails
to this address, one with the updated = bus monitor manual and one with an
updated SBC-85 user's manual.  let = me know if either doesn't arrive (due to
attachment size).  I have also = updated the manuals on the project website.
 
regard
 
craig
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Hollander <moosepixels@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 4:07 = PM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: errata
 
here is my email, if you are up to it I = would like to take an opportunity to
ask more about more items on yours = bc-85 computer and programming. Would
probably be rather elementary questions = go get a better understanding of
related things, especially = programming.
=
=


= --Apple-Mail=_47A393BB-4153-4B9F-A98A-75EEF14BA300--